4.1054 Misc: Languages of Humanist &c. (5/109)

Elaine Brennan & Allen Renear (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Mon, 18 Feb 91 18:19:55 EST

Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 4, No. 1054. Monday, 18 Feb 1991.


(1) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 91 19:14 PST (29 lines)
From: "Robert S. Kirsner" <IDT1RSK@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject: two comments: on languages and on the war

(2) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 91 21:21:42 EST (28 lines)
From: "Ian M. Richmond" <42100_1156@uwovax.uwo.ca>
Subject: French, other languages

(3) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 16:34:44 GMT (26 lines)
From: viden@logos.class.gu.se (Gunhild Viden)
Subject: Re: 4.1032 The Languages of Humanist

(4) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 17:19 EST (11 lines)
From: Michel LENOBLE <LENOBLEM@umtlvr.bitnet>
Subject: Re: 4.1028 The Languages of Humanist

(5) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 91 12:02:51 -0600 (15 lines)
From: "John A. Dussinger" <dussinge@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: English as dominant language

(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 91 19:14 PST
From: "Robert S. Kirsner" <IDT1RSK@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject: two comments: on languages and on the war

(1) If we are to have French and Spanish and German on the net,
why not other languages, so called "minor" ones? (The population
speaking the "minor" languages I teach numbers twenty-five million
people) So let's HAVE Dutch and Afrikaans on the Network.Frisian too.
After all, although only French is French, it is also true that French
is only French. And German is only German. Vondel didn't write in German!
Willem Frederik Hermans doesn't write in Spanish! Hugo Claus doesn't
write in Greek! Andre Brink and Breyten Breytenbach don't write in Albanian.
What do you mean you never heard of these people! You're supposed to be
humanists! Remember the bumper sticker: YOU REALLY AREN'T
WORTH MUCH IF YOU DON'T KNOW DUTCH.

And if this seems like a reductio ad absurdum, perhaps we could
have special postings with the header : Foreign Languages. But then
recognize ALL languages, including, for example, Mojave and Cree.

But given the verbal output of our political leadership these days,
perhaps Humanist should put its MAIN effort into English. Let's
not forget George in the White House and the Inarticulateness Thing. Perhaps
we could have a daily abbreviation list: My contribution for today is BDA
for Bomb Damage Assessment. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.


(2) Keep up the postings on the War. Lest we retreat behind our glass
of sherry and our article on the ecclesiastical use of Latin terms.
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------35----
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 91 21:21:42 EST
From: "Ian M. Richmond" <42100_1156@uwovax.uwo.ca>
Subject: French, other languages

To correct Germaine Warkentin: ("French is not a minority
language in Canada. It is the language of one-third of my
compatriots.") One third is certainly a minority according
to any arithmetic I ever learned.

"Canada is a bilingual country.": Officially perhaps, but
try to buy a French-language newspaper in London, Ontario, a
city of 300,000 inhabitants with a large university (one of the
largest French departments in Canada). Even in Toronto, with its
3 million people, I am sure of being able to find a French-
language newspaper for sale in only two locations. I'm afraid
the bilingualism of our country appears to me to be very much a
myth except in a few well-defined areas. This despite the fact
that I teach French for a living and so spend my (working) days
surrounded by that language.

Since I am multilingual, I have no objections to the use of French
or other non-English languages on Humanist. On the other hand, I
can see little value in using them just to make a rather specious
point.

Ian M. Richmond, Department of French, University of Western Ontario,
London, Ontario, Canada N6A 3K7. 519-661-2163 Ext 5703
also IMR@UWOVAX.BITNET
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------33----
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 16:34:44 GMT
From: viden@logos.class.gu.se (Gunhild Viden)
Subject: Re: 4.1032 The Languages of Humanist (2/45)


In response to Germaine Warkentin's remarks: I am aware that Canada is
a bilingual country, but to me "1/3 of the population" is a minority
compared to "2/3 of the population". A matter of technical terms, I
suppose, and my mistake. Naturally, Germaine W is more aware of "the
hegemonous role of English in American cultural activity across our
undefended border"; you live there! My point was that there are not
only yanks and Canadians on Humanist, and hence not a question of
hegemony of English over French or vice versa. If you think it ought
to be, then tell us Europeans to sign off and we will go and find a
new playground for ourselves. But if you agree that the universe
consists of more than the American continent, then there are two
alternatives: either we agree on one lingua franca, and without
believing that English is the language of the universe, I see good
reasons why it should be the common language. Or we agree to let other
languages in as well, and then it will have to be French _and_ German
_and_ Spanish, at the very least. National identity is very closely
related to matters of mother tongue, as is obvious from some recent
postings on Humanist, and if one language is accepted another group is
very likely to pop up and say "What about us?" I suggest we save our
language hegemony combats for other fora and try to be practical about
these matters.
(4) --------------------------------------------------------------16----
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 17:19 EST
From: Michel LENOBLE <LENOBLEM@umtlvr.bitnet>
Subject: Re: 4.1028 The Languages of Humanist (2/44)


To set the record straight, Flemish is not the language of the
minority in Belgium; French and German are.
Michael, j'utilise le nous dans ma reponse a Boissonas pour carnavaliser
le procede meme que lui-meme utilisait, me semblait-il a tort.

Michel.
(5) --------------------------------------------------------------25----
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 91 12:02:51 -0600
From: "John A. Dussinger" <dussinge@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: English as dominant language


Germaine Warkentin's point that French holds equal place with
English in Canada as a spoken language makes political sense, if one
agrees with the views implicit. But more than once I've heard Parisians
declare that the language spoken in Quebec Province is not REALLY French.
Without for once discouraging the study of "foreign" languages,
nevertheless I believe that it would be a very bad policy for Americans,
say, to adopt Spanish as a parallel official language in this country.
The issue is too complicated for a full analysis here, but I do agree
with Gunhild Viden's argument.
John Dussinger