6.0690 Rs: Writing and Forgetting (6/83)

Elaine Brennan (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Thu, 29 Apr 1993 16:10:44 EDT

Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 6, No. 0690. Thursday, 29 Apr 1993.


(1) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 14:31:12 EDT (18 lines)
From: Andy Lakritz <AL6HENGF@MIAMIU>
Subject: Re: 6.0683 Rs: Laments

(2) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 18:17 GMT (11 lines)
From: George Aichele <0004705237@mcimail.com>
Subject: Lament on Writing

(3) Date: 28 Apr 1993 12:34:44 -0500 (EST) (13 lines)
From: "D A Coleman (ext. 2850)" <DACOLEMAN@FAIR1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: 6.0671 Qs: literature

(4) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:32 CDT (10 lines)
From: Robin Smith <RSMITH@KSUVM>
Subject: Writing and forgetting: quote

(5) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 23:29:52 -0400 (13 lines)
From: dthel@mvax.cc.conncoll.edu (Dirk t.D. Held)
Subject: Writing

(6) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 18:06:38 EDT (18 lines)
From: Bernard.van't.Hul@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: 6.0672 Rs: Writing

(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 14:31:12 EDT
From: Andy Lakritz <AL6HENGF@MIAMIU>
Subject: Re: 6.0683 Rs: E C Prophet; Library Quotes; Step-mothers

This message is in response to both Mike Zimmerman's query for a source of
the story/legend of an Egyptian King (Thamus) who prohibits writing and
Mary Whisner's response to that query. I would also point to Plato's
The Phaedrus (274c-ff) as a good place to begin, and would add that this
passage is crucial to Derrida's own critique of Platonic idealism and its
role in banishing writing. For his treatment of this issue, and a close
reading of Plato, see Dissemination, esp. section 2 ("The Father of Logos")
of the first chapter, "Plato's Pharmacy." Derrida, as I recall, turns
Plato's version of this story into an allegory of the King (Father) seeking
to assert his authority and control on a potentially dangerous practice,
writing, dangerous because in writing authority is dispersed, travels from
the origin, and creates distant sites for knowledge and meaning.

Andy Lakritz, Miami University (AL6HENGF AT MIAMIU)
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------24----
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 18:17 GMT
From: George Aichele <0004705237@mcimail.com>
Subject: Lament on Writing

I don't know if this is what Mike Zimmerman is looking for, but
he might want to check Plato, PHAEDRUS, section 275, the Myth of
Theuth. Plus of course J. Derrida's famous discussion of this
passage in DISSEMINATION.
Regards,
George Aichele
470-5237@mcimail.com
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------25----
Date: 28 Apr 1993 12:34:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "D A Coleman (ext. 2850)" <DACOLEMAN@FAIR1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: 6.0671 Qs: literature; historical geography; e-bible (6/105)

Concerning the alleged evils of written language:

You might want to review what Plato has to say on that subject in his dialogue,
*Phaedrus*. It may not be precisely what you are trying to recall, but it's
at least on the right subject, I believe.

at least on the right subject, I believe.


(4) --------------------------------------------------------------20----
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:32 CDT
From: Robin Smith <RSMITH@KSUVM>
Subject: Writing and forgetting: quote

The quotation Mike Zimmerman is thinking of comes neither from ancient China
nor from ancient Egypt, but from Plato (see Phaedrus 274C-275B). Plato (or
more excatly, the character Socrates in Plato's dialogue) tells it as a bit
of Egyptian myth about the gods Thamos and Theuth, but it's hardly likely to
be anything but Plato's invention (look closely at 275B-C).
--Robin Smith
(5) --------------------------------------------------------------23----
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 23:29:52 -0400
From: dthel@mvax.cc.conncoll.edu (Dirk t.D. Held)
Subject: Writing

Mike Zimmerman may be thinking of the end of Plato's Phaedrus for the Egyptian
warning of the dangers from the invention of writing. Plato has Socrates
refer to a story that the Egyptan Thamus tell the god Theuth that writing, far
from being a benefit will plant forgetfulness in men's souls, that it will
only seem to be wisdom and will tell men of things without really teaching
them; they will thus seem to know much but in fact know nothing, having the
conceit of wisdom, not genuine wisdom.The reference is _Phaedrus_ 274c to
275b. (The historical value of the anecdote obviously should be treated with
great circumspection.) Dirk t. D. Held, Classics, Connecticut College.
(6) --------------------------------------------------------------28----
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 18:06:38 EDT
From: Bernard.van't.Hul@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: 6.0672 Rs: E-Calvin; English Academy; Stats; Journal (5/84)

Subject: If it wasn't written down...
At Job 19:23&24, Job is responding to the scolding of Bildad
the Shuhite:
Oh that my words were now written!
Oh that they were inscribed in a book!
That with iron pen and lead
They were graven in a rock for ever!
Never minding the irony of Job's subjunctive mode, I think that
he is being much more certainly grapho-centric in this snippet
than Linnaeus (as Dirk t. D. Held quotes him) in his
"Nomina si nescis, perit et cognitio rerum" -- which applies
as well in analphabetical settings as in other ones.