8.0128 Rs: Textiles; British English; E-Tacitus (7/164)
Elaine Brennan (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Mon, 1 Aug 1994 07:06:05 EDT
Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 8, No. 0128. Monday, 1 Aug 1994.
(1) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) (34 lines)
From: lenoblem@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Lenoble Michel)
Subject: Re: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo;
(2) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 11:02:16 EDT (25 lines)
From: Paul.F.Schaffner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: re: 18th-cent. cargo (textiles)
(3) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:48:55 +0100 (BST) (11 lines)
From: zzaasvk@cs6400.mcc.ac.uk (V.H.Knight)
Subject: Re: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo; E-Tractatus (2/91)
(4) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 08:35:38 EDT (25 lines)
From: Eric.Rabkin@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Papers of Pins
(5) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:30:11 -0500 (38 lines)
From: u2re9toh@crrel41 (Tim Horrigan)
Subject: Re: 8.0123 R: British English (1/27)
(6) Date: 29 Jul 1994 10:09:29 +0000 (20 lines)
From: "S.A.Rae (Simon Rae)" <S.A.Rae@open.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo; E-Tractatus (2/91)
(7) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 10:26 +08:00 (11 lines)
From: S50786@BC750
Subject: Re: 8.0123 R: British English (1/27)
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: lenoblem@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Lenoble Michel)
Subject: Re: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo;
> (1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 11:51:49 -0230
> From: OLAF <olaf@kean.ucs.mun.ca>
> Subject: Q: 18th Century ship's cargo (textiles)
>
> grateful for any assistance in identifying what kind of fabrics
> or materials these were
>
I need help with the following terms:
>
> - Dornick
Here is may be one clue for this one:
The belgian town of Tournai, in the province of Hainaut, used to
be a weaving center in the past centuries. They still have a
tapestry museum. The flemish translation of Tournai is Doornik.
This is the equivalent of Dornick (pre-spelling reform spelling).
Michel L.
--
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Michel Lenoble
--
Tel.: (514) 288-3916
lenoblem@ere.umontreal.ca
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(2) --------------------------------------------------------------35----
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 11:02:16 EDT
From: Paul.F.Schaffner@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: re: 18th-cent. cargo (textiles)
I am no expert in textiles, but some of the items listed by Olaf Janzen
seem to be reasonably common words, to be found in the Oxford English
Dictionary (OED) or, with more detailed discussion, in _The Draper's
Dictionary_ of William Beck (London: Warehousemen & Drapers' Journal
Office, n.d.) (DD). Since the merchantman in question was Scottish,
it might not hurt to check the _Dictionary of the Older Scottish
Tongue_, _The Scottish National Dict'ry_, and Jamieson's _Etymological
Dictionary of the Scottish Language_ as well. These seem to be the
easiest identifications:
Camblet = OED s.v. "camlet"; DD s.v. "camlet, camblet."
Tyken = OED s.v. "ticken" and "ticking"; DD s.v. "tick, ticking."
Dornick = OED s.v. "dornick"; DD s.v. "dornock."
Tweeld tape: is this not likely "twilled" tape (OED s.v. "twilled")?
Cockernony needles: perhaps hairpins? See OED s.v. "cockernony."
Inkhorns: why should these not be ordinary inkhorns? (OED s.v. "inkhorn.")
Mussilburgh Stuffs are presumably associated with Musselburgh, but I
will let others declare what that might entail. No idea on the others.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Paul Schaffner usergfnk@umichum (BITNET)
Middle English Dictionary pfs@umich.edu
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------30----
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:48:55 +0100 (BST)
From: zzaasvk@cs6400.mcc.ac.uk (V.H.Knight)
Subject: Re: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo; E-Tractatus (2/91)
I suggest you look at a dictionary of Scots as this would help with many of the
unfamiliar spellings. Also, there are many Scots words which do not occur in
standard English; in this lexical area I would expect the French influence
(a consequence of the 'Auld Alliance') to be strong. One of your items is
named after Musselburgh (a town in the lowlands of Scotland).
--
Virginia Knight email: zzaasvk@cs6400.mcc.ac.uk
(4) --------------------------------------------------------------35----
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 08:35:38 EDT
From: Eric.Rabkin@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Papers of Pins
Olaf Janzen, studying an 18th cargo manifest, asks if pins were
once stuck in paper for purchase. I think so, given the folksong
that starts, "I'll give to you a paper of pins/ For that's the
way our love begins/ If you will ma-arry me, me, me,/ If you
will ma-arry me." I don't know the title, but a folklorist ought
to be able to track it from those lyrics--and then date it. (The
song continues with each verse offering what are clearly ever
more valuable gifts, ending, if I recall, with the singer's heart,
so a paper of pins must have been worth something, but not something
terribly costly, perhaps like a bunch of long-stem roses today.)
I hope this helps.
Eric
Eric Rabkin esrabkin@umich.edu
Department of English esrabkin@umichum.bitnet
University of Michigan office : 313-764-2553
Ann Arbor MI 48109-1045 dept : 313-764-6330
deptl fax : 313-763-3128
voice msgs: 313-763-3130
(5) --------------------------------------------------------------52----
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:30:11 -0500
From: u2re9toh@crrel41 (Tim Horrigan)
Subject: Re: 8.0123 R: British English (1/27)
At 22:10 7/28/94 -0400, Tom Bishop wrote:
>
>Indeed, I am quite sure that the speaker was an Englishwoman as she had one
>of the relevant accents. On the other hand, I am by no means sure that the
>question she was asking ("How long will the train be from Vellore?") wasn't
>actually the question: "How long will I have to wait for the train from
>Vellore?" i.e. How many minutes from now is it due to arrive? In either
>case, as I recall, she didnt indicate particular satisfaction with the
>clerk's answer.
>
Another factor (and I apologize for ethnic steroptyping here) in this
incident may be the typically wry Indian sense of humor. The clerk may
have been dseliberately pretending to misunderstand the English woman's
question as a means of enlivening his otherwise dreary workday. We
northern New Englanders love to tease tourists in a similar fashion (e.g.,
"Excuse me. How far is it to Hanover from here?" "Oh, about 25,000 miles
the way you're going. About 2 miles if you turn around and head the other
way.")
************************************************************
TIM HORRIGAN, Climate Data Lab, USACRREL, Hanover, NH 03755
internet: horrigan@hanover-crrel.army.mil
u2re9toh@hanover-crrel.army.mil
horrigan@crrel41.crrel.usace.army.mil
u2re9toh@crrel41.crrel.usace.army.mil
Timothy.Horrigan@bbsmail.magpie.com
ph: (603) 646-4432 (603) 646-4100
************************************************************
(6) --------------------------------------------------------------32----
Date: 29 Jul 1994 10:09:29 +0000
From: "S.A.Rae (Simon Rae)" <S.A.Rae@open.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: 8.0124 Qs: 18th c. ship's cargo; E-Tractatus (2/91)
> From: fbrody@pop.tuwien.ac.at (Florian Brody)
> Subject: Electronic Tractatus
> Could you please help locate an electronic version of L. Wittgensteins
> Tractatus Logico Philosophicus? - German or English.
Try the philosophy Project based at UCHICAGO ... the subject of a recent
HUMANIST mailing (Vol 8 No 0106 - 24 Jul 1994) their WWW 'address' is:
http://csmaclab-www.uchicago.edu/philosophy Project/philos.html - their Email
address is: phil-preprints-service@Phil-Preprints.L.Chiba-U.ac.jp
I 'went' there via the World-Wide Web and noticed a section called
Wittgenstein's Tractatus - don't know if that's what you want ... but it might
be worth a try.
Cheers
Simon
(7) --------------------------------------------------------------15----
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 10:26 +08:00
From: S50786@BC750
Subject: Re: 8.0123 R: British English (1/27)
As a U.S. citizen who has lived in England for seven years and in a British
territory for another seven, I can attest to being well acquainted with the
convention of using "How long will x be?" to mean roughly (in American)
"How much time do I have to wait until x happens?"
Steve Palmquist
S50786@bc750.hkbc.hk