8.0407 Rs: Myrtles (3/94
Elaine Brennan (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:05:03 EST
Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 8, No. 0407. Wednesday, 22 Mar 1995.
(1) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:05:29 -0800 (PST) (25 lines)
From: gwp@dido.caltech.edu (G. W. Pigman III)
Subject: Re: 8.0395 Q: Myrtles (1/14)
(2) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 12:52:27 -0500 (EST) (29 lines)
From: JOHNSTON@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject: Vergil's Myrtles
(3) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:52:18 +0000 (40 lines)
From: weil@bred.univ-montp3.fr ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le?= Weil)
Subject: myrte de Nerval
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:05:29 -0800 (PST)
From: gwp@dido.caltech.edu (G. W. Pigman III)
Subject: Re: 8.0395 Q: Myrtles (1/14)
Mark Calkins asks about Proust's allusion to Virgil's myrtles:
Ce qui me console c'est que Baudelaire a fait les poemes en prose et
les Fleurs du Mal sur les memes sujets, que Girard de Nerval a fait en
une piece de vers et dans un passage de Sylvie le meme chateau Louis
XIII, le myrte de Virgile etc.
Two likely candidates are:
accipiat cingens materna tempora myrto (Georgics 1.28)
Sic fatus uelat materna tempora myrto (Aeneid 5.72)
In the first passage Virgil is wondering whether the earth will be the
realm of the deified Augustus; in the second, Aeneas is wreathing his
head after announcing the anniversary celebration for his father's
death. The first materna alludes to the descent of the Julian gens
from Venus; the second, to Venus as Aeneas's mother.
--
G. W. Pigman III
gwp@dido.caltech.edu
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------43----
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 12:52:27 -0500 (EST)
From: JOHNSTON@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject: Vergil's Myrtles
Although I am not familiar with the passage in Proust et al, there
are several passages in which Vergil refers to the myrtle tree
In the second Eclogue, wherein the lovelorn shepherd Corydon sings of his
love for Alexis (modelled on Theocritus 11, wherein the youthful,
loverlorn Cyclops, Polyphemos, sings of his love for Galatea), Corydon
is promising an array of rustic offerings, including quinces, chestnuts,
etc., and he includes laurel and myrtle:
"et vos, o lauri, carpam, et te, proxima myrte/
sic positae quoniam suavis miscetis odores." (Ec. 7.54-55)
(I shall also gather you, laurel, and you, myrtle,
since you mingle your sweet scents when placed next to each other.)
In the seventh eclogue the myrtle again appears (Ec. 7.6,62,66).
This context is an 'exchange song' between two shepherds. Here Corydon
sings "myrtle is dear to Venus, laurel to Phoebus (Apollo);
but Phyllus loves hazels; as long as Phyllis loves hazels, neither
myrtle nor laurel will surpass hazels."
In Vergil's Georgics, they are mentioned several times. Since
the myrtle was sacred to Venus, from whom Julius Caesar was said to have
been descended, his adoptive son, Octavian/Augustus would also share
that association. In G.1.28, Vergil refers to the crown of myrtle
that Octavian will wear when he becomes a god.
Pat Johnston (johnston@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------61----
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:52:18 +0000
From: weil@bred.univ-montp3.fr ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le?= Weil)
Subject: myrte de Nerval
>Does anyone have any idea as to which two (or more) myrtles in two (or
>more) different generic forms in Virgil Proust is alluding to? Thank
>much--M.C.
Je crois possible un malentendu dans la question meme et dans la
premiere reponse diffusee, mais j'ecris sur mes reserves et ma memoire de
culture generale, pas du tout en erudite, donc mille excuses d'avance si je
suis a cote.
Proust ne fait-il pas allusion au myrte dans les poemes et nouvelles
de Nerval meme?
Certes Virgile parle des myrtes a la fois dans l'Eneide (epopee)
et dans les Georgiques (pastorale et didactique). Mais je suis troublee,
n'ayant pas le texte complet de Proust sous les yeux, par des souvenirs
forts : Gerard de Nerval parle souvent du myrte dans ses merveilleux poemes
des Chimeres, souvent lies au laurier de ... Virgile:
Dans Myrtho "Toujours, sous les rameaux du laurier de Virgile //Le
pale hortensia s'unit au myrte vert".
Dans Delfica "la connais-tu Dafn=E9, cette ancienne romance, /=
/
Au pied du sycomore, ou sous les lauriers blancs, //Sous l'olivier, le
myrte ou les saules tremblants"
Et dans Silvie du meme Nerval, oui certes l'intertextualite avec
les Chimeres est forte. Silvie est souvent comparee a un personnage
virgilien. Le "troene de Virgile" y apparait dans un morceau de bravoure.
D'ou ma suggestion : le myrte nervalien est "de Virgile" comme le
chateau nervalien est "de Louis XIII". Ou bien une contamination poetique
dans les souvenirs litteraires de Proust ? il faudrait verifier dans Proust
et je n'ai aucun texte sous les yeux.
Michele Weil, professeur de litterature francaise =E0 l'Universite Paul
Valery - Montpellier 3, Route de Mende, 34032 Montpellier. Adresse privee :
Impasse des tamaris, F 34200 SETE. - weil@bred.univ-montp3.fr -
tel centre XVIIe 67 14 24 62 - FAX 67 14 24 26