[1] From: Willard McCarty <Willard.McCarty@kcl.ac.uk> (37)
Subject: not exactly modesty
[2] From: Eric Lerner <ejl11@cornell.edu> (50)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[3] From: Ted Parkinson <parkinsn@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA> (16)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[4] From: Gary Shawver <gshawver@chass.utoronto.ca> (12)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[5] From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig-berry@nwu.edu> (22)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[6] From: Michael Sperberg-McQueen <U35395@UICVM.UIC.EDU> (16)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[7] From: TOM DILLINGHAM <tomdill@wc.stephens.edu> (3)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[8] From: "Sarah L. Higley" <slhi@troi.cc.rochester.edu> (1)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[9] From: Ned Muhovich <emuhovic@odin.cair.du.edu> (38)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[10] From: Fred Levy <flevy@u.washington.edu> (4)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[11] From: Lenoble Michel <lenoblem@ERE.UMontreal.CA> (19)
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
[12] From: Marta Steele <Marta_Steele@Pupress.Princeton.Edu> (11)
Subject: the elegant "useless"?
--[1]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:14:29 +0000
From: Willard McCarty <Willard.McCarty@kcl.ac.uk>
Subject: not modesty
My thanks to all the replies to my query in Humanist 10.602 about naming a
kind of writing that seeks to explain why an author cannot address a given
topic. Most of the suggestions point to the "affected modesty" topic,
described for example by Curtius in <cite>European Literature and the Latin
Middle Ages</cite> 5.3 (pp. 83-5). The objective, Curtius notes, is to put
the listener in a favourable state of mind through a modest presence, which
the orator must draw attention to, thus rendering any such modesty affected.
The topic extends to writing in which the author claims that his or her
language is artless, unaffected, or unschooled or assures us that the work
is undertaken in fear and trembling. It can be confused with the "devotional
formula", in which the author abases himself, so that submission and
incapacity are identified. The author may claim, truthfully or otherwise,
that the work was commanded, and so its composition or performance is
compelled, merely an act of obedience.
What I have in mind verges on "affected modesty" where it is a declaration
of submission and incapacity, as for example when a speaker or writer agrees
to undertake a topic (i.e. submits to a request and so is bound by
obligation), then finds that he or she cannot comply (discovers incapacity).
What is crucial to the form I am seeking to name is that the explanation of
incapacity itself becomes a significant contribution to the topic. The
author does not dismiss the assigned topic as nonsense but cogently studies
why a satisfactory response is not possible.
Any further ideas?
Thanks to Michel Lenoble for the reference to Berbard Dupriez, "Gradus";
Eric Lerner for suggesting the Preface to Wittgenstein's Philosophical
Investigations, Ned Muhovich for Tristram Shandy, and Marta Steele for bits
from Virgil's Aeneid and Ovid's Met.; Craig Berry, Tom Dillingham, Sarah
Higley, Fred Levy, Ted Parkinson, Gary Shawver, and Michael Sperberg-McQueen
for the pointer to "affected modesty" (occupatio, praeteritio). It's been
too long since I last read Tristram Shandy for me to recall how well it
might fit; Wittgenstein's Preface comes close. All the replies mentioned
here are included below.
Thanks again.
WM
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dr. Willard McCarty, Senior Lecturer, King's College London
voice: +44 (0)171 873 2784 fax: +44 (0)171 873 5801
e-mail: Willard.McCarty@kcl.ac.uk
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/kis/schools/hums/ruhc/wlm/
--[2]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:02:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Lerner <ejl11@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Willard --
Your query brings to mind the Preface to Ludwig Wittgenstein's
_Philosophical Investigations_, surely one of the seminal works of 20th
century philosophy, which concludes, "I make [these remarks] public with
doubtful feelings. It is not impossible that it should fall to the lot of
this work, in its poverty and in the darkness of this time, to bring light
into one brain or another--but, of course, it is not likely ... I should
have liked to produce a good book. This has not come about, but the time is
past in which I could improve it."
I hope this helps.
Eric Lerner
***********************************************************
Eric J. Lerner
Extension Associate
Cornell Community & Rural Development Institute (CaRDI)
48 Warren Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
voice: (607) 255-2833 email: EJL11@cornell.edu
URL: <http://www.cals.cornell.edu/dept/cardi/>
--[3]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:18:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Ted Parkinson <parkinsn@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
The "trope" sounds close to the medieval modesty topos. For example, at
the beginning of his tale the Franklin says, "colours of rhetoric have I
none" (or something like that). Explorers also use this, but they tend
to say that they are not very good at writing, and not that they don't
have anything useful to say.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Parkinson
Department of English
McMaster University parkinsn@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
Hamilton, Ontario
--[4]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Jan 97 09:11:32 +0000
From: Gary Shawver <gshawver@chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Willard,
Are we really talking genre here, or a particular type of prologue?
Curtius discusses what he calls modesty topoi in Chapter 5, Section 3 of
_European Lit. and the Latin Middle Ages_, but that doesn't quite seem to
fit.
Sincerely,
---------------------------------------------------------
Gary W. Shawver
E-Mail <gshawver@chass.utoronto.ca>
W3 <http://www.chass.utoronto.ca:8080/~gshawver/>
--[5]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:41:37 -0600
From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig-berry@nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Sounds like you are looking for the trope of occupatio, also known as
praeteritio. One of my favorite examples is the opening of _The House of
Fame_, where Chaucer claims not to know what causes the various kinds of
dreams, but in enumerating all of the different kinds of dreams whose cause
he is utterly incapable of stating, he underhandedly demonstrates that he
knows a great deal about dream theory and the possible causes of every kind
of dream there is.
A modern example would be a politician saying, "I do not know whether the
charges others have made against my opponent are true, nor do I consider it
appropriate for me to speculate about such shocking and disturbing
allegations." Basically, it's a way to get credit for keeping one's mouth
shut while still presenting something to the reader/listener.
_________________________________________________________________________
Craig A. Berry craig-berry@nwu.edu
--[6]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 20:41:26 CST
From: Michael Sperberg-McQueen <U35395@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:53:27 +0000 (GMT) you said:
>Here is the sort of query that, I suppose, would be utterly elusive to
>an algorithm.
Why? It's true that no obvious algorithm leaps to my mind; this is
far from being an argument that no algorithm can exist ... Surely
you are trying to mess with our minds.
>here, I hope for some helpful answers.
>
>I am looking for any examples of writing that start out with or are shaped
>by an explanation for why the author cannot say anything useful about an
>assigned topic but which nevertheless succeed in contributing to this topic
>or are otherwise worthy. For my purposes it doesn't matter whether the
>author is being coy; all that matters is the genre (or would it be trope?),
>however genuine. If this genre has a name, I'd be grateful to know it.
Do you mean other than praeteritio (which lacks the notion of
contribution to a topic)?
Michael
--[7]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:36:45 -0600
From: TOM DILLINGHAM <tomdill@wc.stephens.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
There is the "trope of affected modesty" which was common both
in public oratory and in certain nonfiction prose--as well as
pervasive in epistles dedicatory. Could that be what you mean?
Tom Dillingham
--[8]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:53:43 -0500
From: "Sarah L. Higley" <slhi@troi.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
It's called _occupatio_ in medieval rhetoric, which of course is a rhetorical
term for a device or a trope, not a genre. SH
--[9]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:09:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Ned Muhovich <emuhovic@odin.cair.du.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Willard--
Would _Tristam Shandy_ fit that category? It's been awhile since I read it.
Ned
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ned Muhovich University of Denver
emuhovic@du.edu (303)871-2455
--[10]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:03:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Levy <flevy@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Willard:
Is this a version of the "modesty topos"? (so-called) If so, there is (I
believe) information on it in E. Auerbach.
I'm sorry I can't be more specific -- I'm not near my books at the moment.
Fritz Levy
--[11]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:36:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Lenoble Michel <lenoblem@ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Re: 10.0602 unknown genre?
Willard,
Have a look at Berbard Dupriez's book called "Gradus". It is
about tropes, or even better, contact him directly.
M.L.
===================================================================
Michel LENOBLE | Tel. et fax: (514) 485-1799
--[12]----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:36:28 EST
From: Marta Steele <Marta_Steele@Pupress.Princeton.Edu>
Subject: the elegant "useless"?
Willard,
Try _Aeneid_ 22.10-13 and its prototype _Od._ 7.241-43 to start with;
for these I owe credit to a lecture on Virgil I attended yesterday.
Beyond that, what about all of Cicero's disclaimers (I will not
discuss this...) which he proceeds in his oratory to contract with
long diatribes.
Is that what you were after? The topic sentence contradicted by rest
of "paragraph"; words contradicted by actions taken in narrative;
what is the deep structure of the logic and the ultimate gestalt? Perhaps we
can translate this structure into art forms as well? Where?
Marta Steele
(imaginative on a foggy cold afternoon)